Leave The FA Vase Alone
Thu 28th November 2013 | Chairmans Blog | By Ian Templeman
League Chairman Dave Tomlinson airs his concerns over suggestions that the FA will be looking to admit clubs from Step 4 Leagues into the FA Vase:
"As everyone knows, clubs from our League have enjoyed a fair amount of success over the years in the FA Vase, most notably in the mid-2000s when Nantwich Town and Kirkham & Wesham won the trophy, Glossop North End were runners-up, and Cammell Laird and Curzon Ashton both reached the semi-final, all in the space of three years between 2006 and 2009.
For all those clubs, the FA Vase brought them experiences that they will never forget, not to mention the opportunity to boost the club profile and earn some revenue along the way.
But, if the FA have their way, the opportunities for our clubs and others at our level to enjoy great cup runs in the Vase will be reduced in future, because we understand that at a recent Alliance committee meeting (which represents clubs at Steps 1 to 4), discussions took place regarding the possibility of Step 4 clubs being allowed to enter the FA Vase.
I personally find this very concerning, as it appears to be another step towards ensuring that fewer of our clubs, and those from other Step 5 and 6 leagues, will be given the opportunity to compete in FA competitions.
Over the years the Step 1 to 4 Leagues have grown in numbers, stature and domination, with Leagues at Step 5 and Step 6 having to deal with their top clubs being taken away from them to join enlarged leagues further up the Pyramid.
For the clubs left behind, the chance to compete in the FA Cup against potentially bigger clubs, and the chance to play in the FA Vase against teams of a similar level, has long been one of the highlights of each club's season, not to mention giving them the chance to earn some much sought after prize money in the process.
The FA Cup is the finest football competition in this country. We accept that clubs from our level of football can only expect to progress through a few rounds, but the possibility remains that a club from our level can aspire to play a club from the Conference or Conference North, playing in a ground much bigger than they are accustomed to, in front of an attendance much larger than there are used to seeing.
A recent example from our league arose only last season, when Abbey Hey were drawn away at FC Halifax Town, and their players were able to enjoy the experience of a great day out and have the opportunity of playing at a former Football League ground in front of a crowd of almost 1000 people.
I'd suggest that Abbey Hey's experience equates pretty well to that of a Conference club being drawn against a Premiership club in the FA Cup - a great day out for everyone involved at the club and a share of the limelight that they don't normally enjoy.
I can't see that anyone would suggest that days like those, often dubbed "the romance of the Cup" should be removed, and the opportunity for giant-killing should be lessened. However, in recent years, as far as the FA Cup is concerned, that is exactly what has happened for many clubs at Step 6, where the option of competing has been removed.
In our League, only four clubs from our First Division were able to enter this season's competition, compared to eight last season. And of course, it wasn't too long ago when entry was guaranteed for clubs in our league as long as they met the required criteria.
With that FA Cup option now removed for many clubs, the FA Vase becomes even more important. A chance to meet clubs from outside your own league, meeting a club at a similar or the same level, and an opportunity to earn some prize money from progressing a few rounds. Not to mention the chance of maybe even reaching Wembley, as a number of our clubs have done over the years.
But now, the suggestion is that those opportunities for our clubs to progress in the FA Vase are also going to be further reduced, as clubs from Step 4 should be given the chance to compete in the competition.
I believe that the rationale behind the idea is that the clubs near the bottom of Step 4 leagues have no chance of winning the FA Trophy, and entering the Vase would give them a better opportunity of achieving success. However, that argument doesn't really stack up when you consider that the Conference clubs have no chance of winning The FA Cup, but they are given every opportunity to compete against Football League clubs by being exempt until the latter stages of the qualifying rounds.
It's already hard enough for clubs in our league to compete in the FA Vase when other Leagues don't promote their champion clubs, and retain them at Step 5. For example, the winners of the FA Vase in each of the past five years have all finished as champions in their league within the past eight years, and for varying reasons were not promoted.
It's great for them to be able to continue to compete in the Vase, but not so good for the clubs in other Leagues who promoted their strong clubs and their remaining clubs are left competing against clubs from other leagues with greater resources. To include Step 4 clubs in the Vase would only make the situation worse, and reduce even further the opportunities for many clubs at Step 5 and 6 to enjoy success in national competitions.
What’s more, the admission of the bottom six Step 4 sides to the Vase would reward failure. A Step 4 side playing the Vase will potentially have an advantage over the other Step 4 sides in future years as they could potentially use the revenues earned in the Vase to invest in their squad.
The FA Vase winner could earn approximately £50K all in, but an early exit from the FA Trophy may only earn a few hundred pounds. You could even get a scenario at the end of a season where clubs with a chance of finishing in the bottom six of a Step 4 League might even field weakened sides, just make sure they finish in a Vase position rather than a Trophy position.
Surely each division of the National League system should operate on a level playing field? We already see the impact of the FA Cup on Step 6 - some clubs earn revenue while others don't get the opportunity, and that can’t be right.
The FA often champions grassroots football as being the foundation of the game in this country, providing youngsters with the chance to play organised football in safe surroundings at clubs who have achieved FA Chartered Standard. Surely part of that process should be to give young players at Step 5 and 6 clubs to have the chance to at least progress through a few rounds of a national competition?
If clubs with greater resources come in too early and take the share of the revenues, that would only be a further step towards ensuring that the gulf between the leagues gets wider.
To my mind, the FA has an obligation both to preserve the integrity of its competitions, but at the same time give as many clubs as possible the opportunity to benefit from playing in them. To make a move towards favouring clubs higher up the pyramid not only does the smaller clubs a disservice, it strikes at the heart of what the FA should be doing.
They could be working towards ensuring their competitions are open to all clubs at Step 5 and 6, while at the same trying to ensure the playing field is as level as possible – not trying to create a situation where entry to an FA competition is like gaining entry to some sort of exclusive club.
My message to the FA is - you've already limited both the access our clubs have to the FA Cup, and their ability to win prize money from it, so please don't do the same to the FA Vase.
The Vase ain't broke - so don't try and fix it.
Dave Tomlinson, Chairman, North West Counties Football League
If anyone would like to send any comments on this article, they can do so by visiting the League Facebook page by
clicking here.
Alternatively, comments can be e-mailed to League Media Officer Ian Templeman at
ian.templeman@nwcfl.com.
Leave The FA Vase Alone
Thu 28th November 2013 | Chairmans Blog
By Ian Templeman
League Chairman Dave Tomlinson airs his concerns over suggestions that the FA will be looking to admit clubs from Step 4 Leagues into the FA Vase:
"As everyone knows, clubs from our League have enjoyed a fair amount of success over the years in the FA Vase, most notably in the mid-2000s when Nantwich Town and Kirkham & Wesham won the trophy, Glossop North End were runners-up, and Cammell Laird and Curzon Ashton both reached the semi-final, all in the space of three years between 2006 and 2009.
For all those clubs, the FA Vase brought them experiences that they will never forget, not to mention the opportunity to boost the club profile and earn some revenue along the way.
But, if the FA have their way, the opportunities for our clubs and others at our level to enjoy great cup runs in the Vase will be reduced in future, because we understand that at a recent Alliance committee meeting (which represents clubs at Steps 1 to 4), discussions took place regarding the possibility of Step 4 clubs being allowed to enter the FA Vase.
I personally find this very concerning, as it appears to be another step towards ensuring that fewer of our clubs, and those from other Step 5 and 6 leagues, will be given the opportunity to compete in FA competitions.
Over the years the Step 1 to 4 Leagues have grown in numbers, stature and domination, with Leagues at Step 5 and Step 6 having to deal with their top clubs being taken away from them to join enlarged leagues further up the Pyramid.
For the clubs left behind, the chance to compete in the FA Cup against potentially bigger clubs, and the chance to play in the FA Vase against teams of a similar level, has long been one of the highlights of each club's season, not to mention giving them the chance to earn some much sought after prize money in the process.
The FA Cup is the finest football competition in this country. We accept that clubs from our level of football can only expect to progress through a few rounds, but the possibility remains that a club from our level can aspire to play a club from the Conference or Conference North, playing in a ground much bigger than they are accustomed to, in front of an attendance much larger than there are used to seeing.
A recent example from our league arose only last season, when Abbey Hey were drawn away at FC Halifax Town, and their players were able to enjoy the experience of a great day out and have the opportunity of playing at a former Football League ground in front of a crowd of almost 1000 people.
I'd suggest that Abbey Hey's experience equates pretty well to that of a Conference club being drawn against a Premiership club in the FA Cup - a great day out for everyone involved at the club and a share of the limelight that they don't normally enjoy.
I can't see that anyone would suggest that days like those, often dubbed "the romance of the Cup" should be removed, and the opportunity for giant-killing should be lessened. However, in recent years, as far as the FA Cup is concerned, that is exactly what has happened for many clubs at Step 6, where the option of competing has been removed.
In our League, only four clubs from our First Division were able to enter this season's competition, compared to eight last season. And of course, it wasn't too long ago when entry was guaranteed for clubs in our league as long as they met the required criteria.
With that FA Cup option now removed for many clubs, the FA Vase becomes even more important. A chance to meet clubs from outside your own league, meeting a club at a similar or the same level, and an opportunity to earn some prize money from progressing a few rounds. Not to mention the chance of maybe even reaching Wembley, as a number of our clubs have done over the years.
But now, the suggestion is that those opportunities for our clubs to progress in the FA Vase are also going to be further reduced, as clubs from Step 4 should be given the chance to compete in the competition.
I believe that the rationale behind the idea is that the clubs near the bottom of Step 4 leagues have no chance of winning the FA Trophy, and entering the Vase would give them a better opportunity of achieving success. However, that argument doesn't really stack up when you consider that the Conference clubs have no chance of winning The FA Cup, but they are given every opportunity to compete against Football League clubs by being exempt until the latter stages of the qualifying rounds.
It's already hard enough for clubs in our league to compete in the FA Vase when other Leagues don't promote their champion clubs, and retain them at Step 5. For example, the winners of the FA Vase in each of the past five years have all finished as champions in their league within the past eight years, and for varying reasons were not promoted.
It's great for them to be able to continue to compete in the Vase, but not so good for the clubs in other Leagues who promoted their strong clubs and their remaining clubs are left competing against clubs from other leagues with greater resources. To include Step 4 clubs in the Vase would only make the situation worse, and reduce even further the opportunities for many clubs at Step 5 and 6 to enjoy success in national competitions.
What’s more, the admission of the bottom six Step 4 sides to the Vase would reward failure. A Step 4 side playing the Vase will potentially have an advantage over the other Step 4 sides in future years as they could potentially use the revenues earned in the Vase to invest in their squad.
The FA Vase winner could earn approximately £50K all in, but an early exit from the FA Trophy may only earn a few hundred pounds. You could even get a scenario at the end of a season where clubs with a chance of finishing in the bottom six of a Step 4 League might even field weakened sides, just make sure they finish in a Vase position rather than a Trophy position.
Surely each division of the National League system should operate on a level playing field? We already see the impact of the FA Cup on Step 6 - some clubs earn revenue while others don't get the opportunity, and that can’t be right.
The FA often champions grassroots football as being the foundation of the game in this country, providing youngsters with the chance to play organised football in safe surroundings at clubs who have achieved FA Chartered Standard. Surely part of that process should be to give young players at Step 5 and 6 clubs to have the chance to at least progress through a few rounds of a national competition?
If clubs with greater resources come in too early and take the share of the revenues, that would only be a further step towards ensuring that the gulf between the leagues gets wider.
To my mind, the FA has an obligation both to preserve the integrity of its competitions, but at the same time give as many clubs as possible the opportunity to benefit from playing in them. To make a move towards favouring clubs higher up the pyramid not only does the smaller clubs a disservice, it strikes at the heart of what the FA should be doing.
They could be working towards ensuring their competitions are open to all clubs at Step 5 and 6, while at the same trying to ensure the playing field is as level as possible – not trying to create a situation where entry to an FA competition is like gaining entry to some sort of exclusive club.
My message to the FA is - you've already limited both the access our clubs have to the FA Cup, and their ability to win prize money from it, so please don't do the same to the FA Vase.
The Vase ain't broke - so don't try and fix it.
Dave Tomlinson, Chairman, North West Counties Football League
If anyone would like to send any comments on this article, they can do so by visiting the League Facebook page by
clicking here.
Alternatively, comments can be e-mailed to League Media Officer Ian Templeman at
ian.templeman@nwcfl.com.
